Cryteks's positioning towards the indie community

#1
Hey Crytek.
Could you please offer a statement regarding your position towards the indie community ? In particular, there are long standing issues now , which are permanently hidden under carpets or downright dodged

1. Editing tools issue. Will you please make an official statement regarding whatever or not will you release the source code to the Sandbox ? So we know your position once for all, this issue has been dodged long enough, and people who consider editing tools important can switch to your competition, for example Amazon Lumberyard, which offers the source code to it's editing tools ? The ambiguity you maintain regarding this issue is not useful to anyone. So yeah, please consider taking your heart into your teeth and make an official statement on this , putting an end to your perpetually ambiguous stance ?

2. Technical documentation issue. As of today, the programming docs (tech docs) are missing. There is nothing out there in this issue, and it seems that you focus only on content creation docs (tbh, those are also now need revamping, since they do not reflect the reality anymore , and are badly scattered around). Whats even more disturbing is that in past when asking about tech docs people from Crytek made it seem like they are not important, pointing out that Crytek has some popular pool and nobody in the community want tech docs, save for one or two lunatics. I ask you, did you ever seen any game which was art only, and no programming? Cause I did not. Please look at Unity and see how well your competition managed to document their interfaces , or the quality of documentation offered by Microsoft for their user facing APIs. ( Note: GameSDK is a treasure trove, but cannot serve as technical documentation).
Could you make a meaningful statement regarding the fate of technical docs (meaningful meaning more that: we are looking into that or other rather empty statements )

3. Several days ago, after many months in the CE community, I found out that You have a Community Manager !! How is this even possible that a person who should be spearheading your marketing efforts towards indie community manages to be invisible to this community for all practical purposes ? 0 communication, 0 presence. No, some tweets do not count. Today you could use AI to post some tweets , no need for a person. It is really not our problem how you run your marketing, but out of curiosity, why has been this person so invisible in the community ? Are your future plans strictly linked to enterprise and plan to neglect the already dwindling indie market ? Is there other explanation for your invisibility in promoting the engine to this market, and the total failure of communication? Note that the second I lookd to the engine of one of your competitors, namely Epic, I also seen how forward and customer facing their community management is. Their community managers easily visible, a face , human to human interaction. In your case I had to be enlightened in a private talk about the fact you have one too ? Why do you keep him hiding ? You do care about this small indie market, or not ?

4. Could you give some attention your Roadmap ? It is permanently months and months off, It always show that you accomplished everything you've set up to do for a release, with no delays or failures whatsoever, when this is in fact rarely the case. Many features slip with months, others are abandoned and no one hears anything about them anymore. That development delays happen this is understandable, even inevitable, but not yeah, if you have that road-map, you should make a minimal effort to keep up to date and resembling reality

5. Could you make public the schedule and content of your payed seminars ? If today someone wants some information he/she gets for the money payed, it is an impossible task through an official channel. No schedule, no word on what you actually sell there. Now, maybe more people would pay for your product if they would know more about it.

Thank you

Re: Cryteks's positioning towards the indie community

#2
Dan

1. This is still fully intended and will be released. As stated there are many things we have to protect and look over regarding the legality of releasing it. It can even happen to the biggest of companies where they accidentally release some code and then get a DMCA and pulled off Github. Clarification on this will be housed in our upcoming announcement

2. Technical documentation is something that is being handled by certain individuals in the engine team. we should have more info on this matter in a blog highlighting things this coming week. The biggest task has been extracting out GameSDK code and really moving to this modular workflow. In the announcement we have planned some of this learning and new hires will be broken down so you can see how we are actively tackling this. It is no longer just me sitting on weekends tackling this massive stack of deprecated material for a restructure.

3. Most of this is around the amount of resources regarding the position. Unreal has a large pool of CM's to inject into the community. This also is something you will see visible progress on in the coming weeks. Words wont be needed to describe the changes.

4. This will be in CMS and was simply being nested in a bigger deployment. This way it is completely dynamic. So therefore this slight inconvenience will be resolved shortly. A week later than I said but nevertheless I too want to see this more flexible.

5. The next 2 upcoming seminars are as follows: Entity Components "Nov 22" and Dynamic Dialog with DRS "Dec 13". I do not wish to extend beyond 2016 as the calendar can always shift due to developer availability.

Thanks

Collin

Re: Cryteks's positioning towards the indie community

#3
First of all, congrats for this post. There is another post that i would like to link to this thread (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4020&p=10610#p10610), it says "What is happening with engine? Where arу hotfixes, where roadmap updates? Where is new docs updates? A month has passed since 5.4 release, but no news so far". Those two describes my feelings very well.

I LOVE Cryengine so much, but there are some things that are hard to live.

Thanks Collin for the answers. I really hope to see the changes you mentioned.

P.S.: I wonder if Crytek could make some training lessons using assets from Hunt: Showdown (regarding topics such as animation, visual effects, schematyk)... i know it would draw so much positive community attention out there, indie developers like myself would definetely love it! Epic do this with resources from Paragon / Fortnite, Unity create Blacksmith / Adam for this purpose, and even shared the assets.
Hunt: Showdown is getting awesome and the tech used by it is TOP. You guys need to use this game to help highlight Cryengine to more developers. It's not about Dev Diaries, but training content ;)

Re: Cryteks's positioning towards the indie community

#5
Hi Dan,

Most of your questions have already been answered by Collin. I was on vacation, so it's only now that I am back. I still want to take the time to answer to your post, so you see I exist. ;)

I can only assume that you primarily frequent external community channels like Slack and Discord if you haven't heard from me so far. As Collin mentioned, I am the only Community Manager for CRYENGINE at this point and that is a very different position than the teams of CMs that work for our direct competitors you mentioned. I am by no means hiding but I have limited resources, so we prioritize our own channels when it comes to presence and communication.

As with all things, tastes vary and if you don't mind about Twitter, that's completely legit, but we have numbers to crunch and priorities to make. ;) I, for one, would feel deeply unsatisfied would I leave our 54,3k Twitter followers hanging and just auto-generate bot messages for them. The same goes for our FB fans and the 126693 forum members. I am on Slack and both Discord channels, btw. I just don't post as frequently as I do on our primary channels due to time limitations. But you can always shoot me an @mention if you have specific community questions.

But now as you found your way into the forum, I say welcome and hope you enjoy your stay. Check our our Official Announcement board first, maybe, so you can see what's new. Or leave your feedback on the feedback board, so our devs can consider it.

Cheers,
Nic
CRYENGINE Brand Manager

I'm manning the CRYENGINE stations on Facebook & Twitter as well, so come and say hi!
My personal Twittering may contain nuts.

Get to know me.

Re: Cryteks's positioning towards the indie community

#8
Hi cry-nic !

See, there is a big problem throwing numbers around. You say, and I quote "126693 forum members". Despite the high numbers of accounts, those forums are second to importance to Slack to anyone actually using the engine. The average number of posts / day is low on those forums. Even more, there is low information density. Most newcomers to the engine would have extremely hard time to gather info from here and at current point in time, Slack is the **best** bet for them to get up to speed rapidly. And it is a shame that Slack is the premier place for Cryengine information, and not an official Crytek sanctioned communication channel.

So, what about actually building a community ? And actually spearhead marketing efforts in **community**.

About twitter. nothing wrong with it it is awesome work, but a couple of tweets a week on average ... how much time do they really eat ? In my opinion it is important to cover all channels where community is present.

Stoping and reevaluating is sometimes wise.

P. S Do Crytek's CMs know who maintains the biggest open game code base for Cry-engine games, besides Crytek, in this community ? A resource which helps enormously because there are no technical docs out for CryEngine, GameSDK is messy and way too high complexity to be usable by newcomers to the engine. Did CMs got to know CryeEngine;s community in all it's various incarnations ?

This post was edited Reason - initial post was overly harsh and I came to the conclusion that current incarnation better illustrates the points I wanted to send across.
Hi Dan,

Most of your questions have already been answered by Collin. I was on vacation, so it's only now that I am back. I still want to take the time to answer to your post, so you see I exist. ;)

I can only assume that you primarily frequent external community channels like Slack and Discord if you haven't heard from me so far. As Collin mentioned, I am the only Community Manager for CRYENGINE at this point and that is a very different position than the teams of CMs that work for our direct competitors you mentioned. I am by no means hiding but I have limited resources, so we prioritize our own channels when it comes to presence and communication.

As with all things, tastes vary and if you don't mind about Twitter, that's completely legit, but we have numbers to crunch and priorities to make. ;) I, for one, would feel deeply unsatisfied would I leave our 54,3k Twitter followers hanging and just auto-generate bot messages for them. The same goes for our FB fans and the 126693 forum members. I am on Slack and both Discord channels, btw. I just don't post as frequently as I do on our primary channels due to time limitations. But you can always shoot me an @mention if you have specific community questions.

But now as you found your way into the forum, I say welcome and hope you enjoy your stay. Check our our Official Announcement board first, maybe, so you can see what's new. Or leave your feedback on the feedback board, so our devs can consider it.

Cheers,
Last edited by Dan1973 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Cryteks's positioning towards the indie community

#10
I would like to point out that people in Slack, are not in fact "fans". Those are the actual **users** of your free product. What some call "fans" is a serious part of your indie market. Their name is customers, and those channels are maintained to ease the transfer of information between customers of the free version of the engine.

I believe the distinction is crucial. Look at your competition Amazon LY . For them every user is a customer. and this carries them far far away.

@cry-nic
whats the discord for cry engine?
We don't have an official one, but there are two fan-governed channels. You can find them here.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest